Arpita Kapoor 1:51
Hi, I’m Arpita. I’m one of the co-founders of Mysa.

Ananda Krishna 1:54
Hi, I’m Ananda, one of the co-founders and CTO of Astra Security.

Arpita Kapoor 1:59
I am here at the Neon studio with my friend Ananda and we’re going to have a fun conversation.

Ananda Krishna 2:05
I think founders don’t always talk heart to heart about all the challenges they’re going through. So we’ll try and focus a little bit on the personal side of things and super excited for today. I think we should start with a laugh.

Arpita Kapoor 2:21
You’ve been a senior podcaster, you’ve been on like so many of them. You tell me, tell me how to do this well?

Ananda Krishna 2:30
Ignore the cameras.

Arpita Kapoor 2:31
Okay, a lot of our journeys are sort of full of all the support we get. Maybe I’m curious, how was yours? Did you have all the support or did you fight it through?

Ananda Krishna 2:45
Full support, like, I mean, right from Shikhil co-founder to my friends, partners, family, everyone. Like, it’s so crazy. Like, I feel like the reason I’m doing tech is because of family.

Oh. Like, mom taught me programming. One of my friends, like, I used to write a lot of software after school.

So one of my friends, like, he knew that I was writing some keylogger or something. And he’s like, you know, like, this other friend of ours wants a FIFA game setup.

Arpita Kapoor 3:20
So maybe we can build a FIFA for him.

Ananda Krishna 3:25
Yeah, but mine was a malware. So I thought, okay, let’s see that how can I put this keylogger into this FIFA game and get someone’s Facebook password. So yeah, so stuff like that happened through and through and couldn’t imagine a world without that.

Game, you said games, like, what type of games?

Arpita Kapoor 3:47
That was my first startup. It’s called Mech Mocha. And I started it with my co-founder, Mohit.

I think without co-founders, I don’t think life exists. We both will agree. I actually don’t know how solo founders do it.

But I think started Mech Mocha almost after graduating in just towards the end of college. And I think definitely when you start in 20s, you need a lot of support. Like when I’m starting Mysa in my early 30s, there is support, but it’s not like I need it, need it, need it.

So like when we started Mech Mocha, we started it out of our campus and IIM Ahmedabad’s campus and then moved to Bangalore out of nowhere because Blume was investing in us and Flipkart was investing in us. And I remember that the money hadn’t really hit the bank and we had moved to Bangalore. So we were like, where do we live?

We don’t have money. And we didn’t really work. We were just graduated and started Mech Mocha.

So there were very nice people who are here in Bangalore, part of my family, who we stayed with. Every time we went to Bombay to raise capital or to do partnerships, we had again cousins, family who we would stay with and who would give us a lot of just moral and tactical and logistical sort of support and I think that is absolutely important. If I look back, there were so many people.

I think this question takes you back.

Ananda Krishna 5:19
This will sound like an IIFA award.

Arpita Kapoor 5:21
Yeah, it was so many people who just did small, small, small things to make you where you are.

Ananda Krishna 5:27
It makes sense. You talked about starting up in college. So that makes two of us.

How was that journey? Like, I mean, at that time, like, I mean, it’s many years ago.

Arpita Kapoor 5:39
Definitely very clueless. Sometimes just to humor myself, I go back and read my emails that time. Like, I would write odd emails, like I would write some funny emails.

And I remember I’ve reached out to somebody random who was like this really senior person in EY. Sorry, EA. EA was a gaming company.

And I wanted them to join us. And we were literally 20 something with nothing. So I think the guts at that time are very, very unmatched to today.

Like today, you’re like more, more hinged, more formal. When in 20s, you’re like, why would they not pick my call? Obviously, they will pick my call and I’m building the next big thing.

And so 20s is fun. And I think one of the odd things about starting in 20s is that a lot of people would come and maybe, you know, most I know your journey has been bootstrapped. But, but for me, the first journey was fully funded by Venture World

Ananda Krishna 6:37
When you were in college itself?

Arpita Kapoor 6:39
So IIM Ahmedabad incubator gave us a first check. And in fact, even our college had an incubator. So the first two checks, which is very little at that time was 10 lakhs.

But I think it meant everything to not take the jobs IIM had from campus and to say we’re taking that leap of faith to do something. And at that point, we were very inspired. So the only company broadly we were inspired by was Flipkart.

So we were like, let’s write to them as well. You know, what if they would invest in us and they actually invested in us. But all through this sort of sort of time, I think the odd thing about 20s is that everyone’s gonna tell you, oh, you know, you should get some more experienced people.

And then when those people arrive, they’re going to tell you how things how things run and something as basic as print, because you’ve never worked in a corporate setting. For me, I think that’s the oddest part where everybody would come, walk in and try to tell you how to do things. And I think the startup founders journey is about taking their own conviction.

And I think it’s about unaltered conviction. That’s what I believe that you can inspire, but you can’t alter your conviction. And I think this happens a lot to 20 something founders where they have to act rude because everybody’s telling them things.

How was it for you?

Ananda Krishna 7:55
I mean, pretty similar in that sense. Like we were two..

Arpita Kapoor 7:57
Like there were no VCs to tell you.

Ananda Krishna 7:58
No VCs.

Arpita Kapoor 7:59
That was the fun part. But yeah.

Ananda Krishna 8:02
I don’t know if it’s a good thing or not.

Arpita Kapoor 8:04
It is a good thing. Indeed.

Ananda Krishna 8:06
I mean, we had a very different journey. We were two kids who knew how to hack. You give us a web application, we’d hack it.

I think we gave our college administration a very tough time. We got access to their CCTVs, kiosks, grading systems, and all that. And every time we found something, we used to tell them.

Arpita Kapoor 8:26
Tell people what they’re not good at.

Ananda Krishna 8:27
Yeah. And so we went to like an NIIT university, like not IIT. And so luckily for us, like one of the founders of an NIIT, VKT, Vijay Thadani.

So he was also used to come to the college and he used to get to know about all the drama we were causing in college. So for us, he took special interest to mentor us, guide us, make sure he met us every time. And for someone who’s one of the founders of a publicly listed company, that guidance was very different.

Something which you don’t get from a traditional VC or angels or something. But we didn’t know all that to be honest.

Arpita Kapoor 9:13
Actually, you didn’t know the guides and the blocks and the lanes?

Ananda Krishna 9:17
Nothing. We just knew that we can hack, we can make a business out of it. So we never thought of raising, we never thought of doing anything.

All of it was completely organic. Even how I met Shikhil as well.

Arpita Kapoor 9:31
Isn’t that the delight of building in B2B? I’m already realizing like a B2B business, you can plan it to be profitable. Like with Mysa, we feel like, oh, it’s totally possible.

And when I and Mohit were starting up, so he comes from a Telugu family where everything is very important, including college and PhD and everything. So we sat in the first placement and we were not planning to sit for placements. We didn’t have the formal sort of clothing that you need to sit for placement, but we somehow managed, borrowed, begged, whatever.

And Mu Sigma was the company that came and we sat through the interviews and Mohit is very good at conducting himself and everything. So he just got in after like 10 minutes of interview, the final interview.

Ananda Krishna 10:17
We forced to sit for the placement.

Arpita Kapoor 10:18
No, we thought we’ll take one placement so that everybody is home and feels like you got placed. So we said, first company, whatever company, doesn’t matter, we’ll sit. And we sat and Mohit got in the final round with like 10 minutes of interview.

And the Mu Sigma team sitting with me and they’re like, they’re looking at whatever was in my resume and they’re like, 100% you will not join. And you have so many things you are doing, you will not join. And I’m trying, I’m like, oh, I’m from a very small village, obviously like job is very important to me.

And I’m telling them things, but they are not believing. And they took almost an hour to take a decision. Luckily, we both got the offers and Mu Sigma is a great company.

They send things home. So they take your home address and they send like, welcome to Mu Sigma, to your parents and everything. So our parents were very sure we got placed.

And then we started the journey.

Ananda Krishna 11:07
At least know you’re not making it up.

Arpita Kapoor 11:08
Of course, that was very important.

Ananda Krishna 11:10
Yeah, I mean, regarding the placement thing, we were also forced to sit on placement. Final year, college placements, everyone had to appear for placement.

Arpita Kapoor 11:19
Otherwise, you are moving the metric a little bit.

Ananda Krishna 11:21
Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, it turned out well for us because Shikhil was like, we’ll leave, 10 minutes, we’ll leave, like not to get qualified. So, but one crazy thing we did is we started doing a pen test of the application.

Arpita Kapoor 11:36
Oh, that was then also very important.

Ananda Krishna 11:38
That was very important for us. We were like, if not a job, we’ll at least get a client out of this. So we found SQL injection in the portal.

Then we left the room, we got like full access to admin portal. We could see everyone’s grades in real time, like who’s doing, scoring how much. And we saw the other side, like how employers evaluate kids.

So then we made a plan that we’ll go tell the company that, you know, like as responsible security professionals, we found this vulnerability. So we went to the placement in charge and said, can you please connect us to this company? He’s like, don’t.

Arpita Kapoor 12:14
That’s what I was telling you before we were chatting. How do you tell somebody they’re not good enough? It’s a very difficult job.

Ananda Krishna 12:21
He’s like, see, they have a vulnerability. It’s fine. It’s their problem.

But if you tell them about the vulnerability, they will never come to college for placement. So yeah, we were, we didn’t tell them. And I don’t know, three, four years, they shut down though.

That’s a whole different story, but unrelated.

Arpita Kapoor 12:38
Yeah, no, no. I think, I mean, you spoke about this thing about, like, are we doing it right?

Ananda Krishna 12:45
Yeah. So in the startup journey, like it’s been what, like 15 years now?

Arpita Kapoor 12:50
Yeah, definitely. 12 plus.

Ananda Krishna 12:52
15 years, so 12 plus years. So who are some people who you’re really thankful for?

Arpita Kapoor 12:59
I mean, I remember that I had written a post during Mech Mocha Flipkart thing about gratitude. And after that post, people were like, oh my God, so many people helped you. And it got a lot of love because people were like, it really takes a village to build something.

And just not for the startup. So even before the startup, I remember that I and Mohit had applied for a scholarship, which is given by International Game Developers Association. And they usually would sponsor everything but the flights.

So we were like, okay, we don’t have the money for the flight. So what do we do? So I mean, just for Jugaad, we tried multiple sources of flight money.

So we obviously wrote to our college that, you know, we are such bright stars of your college. So can you fund it? But there was nothing in college that had that kind of structure.

And out of hassle, I just wrote to multiple gaming company founders in India. And at that time, there was India Games and then there was Dhruva Interactive and Rajesh, who’s founder and CEO of Dhruva and Vishal Gondal, both of them actually incidentally replied. And I generously asked the entire money to all, saying, can you fund this much for our scholarship?

But then because both of them replied, I actually connected both their teams and they actually funded 50% of each of the flights. And we actually went for that. And that led to inspiration to start Mech Mocha because we were like, if such great games are built across the globe, why is India not developing high quality enough at that point?

And that was sort of this little genesis to start Mech Mocha and build high quality games. And that was our first pitch. In fact, we were literally, actually, to be honest, nothing, not even a company.

And we went to Hyderabad and we met the founders of the company that owns ChotaBeam as an IP. And we just went and we just went into the meeting and we told them that we will 100% make a high quality game than anyone has ever made for your IP. And they were like, okay, great.

Usually they charge so much for their IP, but they literally didn’t charge us anything. And the first game we built as Mech Mocha was with ChotaBeam as an IP without paying for the IP. And so people just go above and beyond.

I always feel you just need to ask.

Ananda Krishna 15:29
What do you think is so true and from the sounds of it, like what if they said no to funding that flight ticket? What if you didn’t ask?

Arpita Kapoor 15:39
Yeah, most people would not ask.
I met a founder recently, he got something in Korea and he was like, I don’t, I’m not getting visa clearance and I want to go to Korea because my startup has been selected. And I sat him down and I said, can’t you just write to embassy and whoever you can write to because somebody is going to help you and you will go to that event in Korea that you got selected for. And for me, this balance of openly asking and then actually miraculously people sort of show up even in Mysa journey.

Our founding team member, we call him MJ because we have two Mohit’s in the team. He’s also Mohit. So we found him miraculously through an intro of Ashwin, who’s the Xflow founder.

And I was telling, I was just playing in out wild, right? I was like, you tell which banker you know, which is the best banker you know for learning, like just making myself aware of everything that is in financial services. And Ashwin said, you should meet this guy.

And he connected me and then I met MJ and then he invested in us. And then month and a half later, he said, I’m coming and I’ll join you guys. And he’s now so very much, very critical, right?

So people just randomly come together. And in fact, Ashwin also introduced us to Tally. And it’s so fun that when Ashwin introduced, he made a group on WhatsApp.

And the person who connected me saved in my phone as a dog dad. And I was like, what is this Jojo’s dad? And I realized that Jojo’s dad is basically my dog’s Yoda.

And we lived with this person in Tally as neighbors for about five years. And our dogs were friends. And that’s how his number saved as Jojo’s dad.

And Deepak in Tally is a very senior person. And then I realized that, okay, it’s such a small world. And at that point, we stayed next to each other.

And we had no idea because we were not building in anything around Tally. We were literally in Flipkart and it didn’t matter. And today it’s very important.

From a Mysa context, this relationship is very, very important. And so it’s just odd how those intros you get and they tie together in one thing that makes sense. I think most people are generous.

In fact, I’ve only found a few people in my life who are not generous. And you can count them on fingers. It’s that less.

Otherwise, most people are generous with their time, generous with their… If you are nice enough, they will be nice enough. And I always tell everyone that it’s a very, very small world.

Whether it is the Jojo’s dad example or Vishal Gondal and Dhruva Interactive example, it’s just a very, very small world to be nice to everyone and make the good karma happen.

Ananda Krishna 18:30
Yeah. And I didn’t… Early on in our journey, I never realized the importance of someone giving you so much time and advice.

For us, so many times, in hindsight, we’ve realized that after many years, we’ve realized what that advice was. Like Thadani Sir from NIIT, he bet on us very early on.

Arpita Kapoor 18:51
While you were in college?

Ananda Krishna 18:52
While we were in college. We were just 2 stupid kids wanting to do something of our own. I think it was Shikhil only.

He sent an email to VKT out of the blue saying that we’re students of your university. We’re building something like a security space and just wanted to let you know. And he made it a point that on his next visit to college, he made sure we got a one-on-one with him.

Arpita Kapoor 19:22
Yeah.

Ananda Krishna 19:22
And we didn’t realize the importance of that. And when we had to get up at like 7 in the morning to get through that meeting, but that was so important and him giving us that time. And many years later, his assistant Latha Ma’am, she also told us that he’s given us instructions that whenever Shikhil and Ananda ask for a meeting, immediately give it right away because they’re coming from Neemrana.

So, they’re only here for limited time.

Arpita Kapoor 19:50
Prioritize them.

Ananda Krishna 19:50
Yeah.
And after that, I got like VPs of NIIT telling me that we need to get meetings like months in advance. And each meeting, there was always this takeaway. And when I say like bet big, he gave us office space in college.

For one faculty bear, like he gave it to us. No questions asked, nothing. He connected us to the best investors, advisors and all.

And we’re in touch with a lot of them even now. And yeah, that was important. Those meetings, like so many meetings we’ve taken with him in the car and that perspective, which he’s given over the years, like even at this age, he’s like very old now.

And even now, we’re in touch. He came for Shikhil’s wedding as well. And I’m going to invite him to my wedding as well.

And that personal touch and there’s so many instances where they’ve gone out of the way to help.

Arpita Kapoor 20:51
So Ananda, I don’t know about you, but like in my journey, even college seniors have been very, very critical, where they have gone above and beyond to enable, though, as you say, NI whatever extra. And we also are from a IIIT, we always say there’s an extra I. But I think, Anirudh sir, we call him sir, because college has this sir, ma’am culture.

You know, Anirudh sir was always super, like whenever we were initially in doubt, we would call him. And that stays true today also, right? He’s worked in KPMG.

Now we are building in financial services and finance. So we’ll still call him and we will have such good conversations out of which something meaningful always comes in. Same with Siddhartha, you know, I have seen Siddhartha’s journey from him doing a startup to now running Neon and investing in Mysa.

So I think seniors for me also have been very, very critical. Shilp was our co-founder. He was also a college senior.

He was a CTO in Mech Mocha. So I think that also is very critical. I don’t know about you, but for us, it has been very fun.

Ananda Krishna 22:02
Pretty much the same for us as well. We got our first customer because of a college senior only, Chirag sir.

Arpita Kapoor 22:10
In your college also they do sir, ma’am. I still call everybody sir, ma’am. They’re like, what is this?

Ananda Krishna 22:17
Yeah, but initially, initial days only, like after that, like we still call sir, but like it’s more out of like friendship.

Arpita Kapoor 22:23
Yeah, it’s all now very much out of friendship and care.

Ananda Krishna 22:25
Yeah, like I think he was a product manager at Girnar Group, like CarDekho, Gadi.com and all these. So they were looking for some like pen tests or something and like we were the only security guys he knew. So he just trusted us and over the years, like we’ve become really good friends with like Chirag as well.

And also like Rameshwar sir, who is like, him I actually called sir because he’s a CTO.

Arpita Kapoor 22:52
Actually a sir?

Ananda Krishna 22:55
No, like because, you know, like he was very busy at that time. He was managing like Gadi.com, CarDekho and in different capacities and he gave us time. So he gave us perspective and like whenever they faced any security challenge, he used to tell us about it, you know, that he was, they were going through some compliance process at that time and he’s like, we have to implement a firewall.

Arpita Kapoor 23:23
And why don’t you guys do it?

Ananda Krishna 23:25
Is that something you guys do?

Arpita Kapoor 23:26
Yeah.

Ananda Krishna 23:28
We weren’t doing at that time. We were looking, we were trying to identify a product we have to build. So these were two parallel conversations at that time.

On one end, like Rameshwar sir telling us about his requirement of a firewall and on the other end, Thadani sir telling us about, you know, like how you should build a product and not sell your time, that you should be making money even when you sleep. So on a breakfast meeting over here and like a lunch meeting with Rameshwar sir. So that shaped us and gave us perspective on things and we actually ended up building a firewall, not for enterprises, but we found that niche that people like small and medium enterprises, who having like WordPress sites, Magento stores, they face security issues and they need something to secure their application.

And that’s what we ended up building. And then we also had like the CTO of NIIT also guiding us on the tech side of things, Rajan sir for that. And we ended up building that product and because of which we are here, where we are, like we pivoted away from that, like a few years into it though.

But it was these people who gave us time and perspective.

Arpita Kapoor 24:53
Yeah, I think time is extremely essential.

Ananda Krishna 24:56
But for you, like it’s a very interesting dynamic, right? Like you started up in college, you got acquired by Flipkart.

Arpita Kapoor 25:03
Yeah.

Ananda Krishna 25:04
Mohit and you, I mean, also I’m guessing, we also got married a couple of years ago.

Arpita Kapoor 25:08
Yeah, we are like partners. Before Mysa, after Flipkart is when we got married.

Ananda Krishna 25:13
So then it’s like a very conscious decision for both of you.

Arpita Kapoor 25:16
To start again? Newly married. Yes.

Ananda Krishna 25:19
In a good big enterprise.

Arpita Kapoor 25:21
I don’t even see it as newly married because literally we’ve been built. So I always say that, people say that your marriage becomes strong when you’ve seen life together or some big shit happens. I think running a company is like that.

Like running Mech Mocha was like that. It made you go through so many ups and downs and it was an extremely conscious decision to start again. And I think one of the things that is the reason, a slightly selfish reason also that when I, I don’t know about you, but when I said, okay, I have to start again.

And I had this idea and the person to ideate was Mohit. And he was like, okay, I’m also very excited about this. And I was like, even if I have to build it without Mohit, I can’t.

I need somebody like him on product. And I convinced him that whatever else you want to do, you can do later. And he’s like, no, no, it’s fine.

So it was extremely conscious. Like the first time around, you won’t call it a conscious decision of building the company together. It was very organic with this idea, that idea and you went, but this time very conscious decision to say that if there is something we can do, which is a legacy to the idea that we are deeply excited about, very, very conscious, very different from the first journey, which was like, let’s build something.

Ananda Krishna 26:29
So Mech Mocha time, like you were co-founders, but you weren’t married at that time. And this is after Flipkart. So how is the dynamic at home? You know like, work and..

Arpita Kapoor 26:39
I always say that, again, there, again, the philosophy matters, which is that you try to isolate yourself and you say, okay, this is life and this is work. You make up certain, as we say, rituals. And we talk to a lot of founders who are either brothers, sisters, or who are partners.

And we always say that, how do you draw that line? And I think for us, since we worked together so long, that dynamic was already set. So technically, this is more new, but some rituals to just keep vacations away from work talk help, but it’s never perfect.

If there is something ongoing, it’s on top of head. It’s very useful because it’s on top of head of both people. But it also needs a lot of work, is how I’ll put it, to ensure that it’s not overshadowing everything in life.

You spoke about Shikhil and co-founders that are very, very important. Maybe tell one quirky thing you guys do to manage conflict.

Ananda Krishna 27:42
Luckily, we don’t have too much conflict. I think over the years, we’ve known each other for way too long right now. We just know when to have that conversation, when not to.

I think, for me, Shikhil knows that if he has to give critical feedback, not on Slack, maybe in person and in conversation like it. I think we tried different tactics, but then we realized that you just have to say it.

Arpita Kapoor 28:14
Royal organic. I think that works in our team as well. My first startup was with Mohit and Shilp who was a college senior.

The second startup is with Mohit and Ashutosh in engineering. I think we’ve realized that whatever math you make, it’s basically you are an emotional being and when you’re emotional, you anyway can’t go and say anything to the team or express so much. So, you just get your co-founders in the room and you say it.

Ananda Krishna 28:41
Yeah, exactly. For us, because we went to college and it was always us against the world. So, we found that comfort and just say it out loud.

Arpita Kapoor 28:51
Is it going okay? Because we want to spend the entire one and a half hour without being okay. I’ll add some emotion.

Don’t worry.

Ananda Krishna 29:02
You said you’ll make the guest cry, I thought I’ll make you cry.

Arpita Kapoor 29:06
I can make you cry, but I don’t know.

Ananda Krishna 29:13
So, like half end of the podcast, I realized that podcast founders on founders, we’ve been talking about our companies, but haven’t talked about us. What’s your 15 seconds of fame?

Arpita Kapoor 29:36
15 seconds of fame. I don’t know. I never applied to Forbes 30 under 30, but Mohit applied on my behalf and I don’t know why he really wanted that I should get in that list.

And when I got into that list, my dad being a journalist, publishes everything about me. Unimportant or important doesn’t matter, but he’s really proud and he will publish anything. So, he actually published it in all the newspapers in North, which he has access to.

Now, he has access to South as well. And everybody called me as if I have made it in life. So, that was one.

The second was when we raised money from Accel and Shunwei. Shunwei was a large fund. They funded us and Sharechat.

So, we technically raised 32 crores in INR. So, my dad told some journalist about it in UP and the guy made a headline calling. So, when I used to go to school, the school in village was 32 kilometers for all my life till 10th.

So, the guy made a headline, 32 kilometres travel karnewali Arpita ne raise kiye 32 crores. And that sort of went viral. And I was like, what is this logic?

Where is it coming from? But people in the village were so proud. So, I was like, maybe it makes sense.

Ananda Krishna 30:59
I love these Hindi news headlines.

Arpita Kapoor 31:01
And he literally made the headline 32 kilometres school jane wali Arpita. And I was like, never would you celebrate a number so much in INR that this person ended up writing. It was not even my dad, somebody else wrote it.

But those were the fun moments. For you?

Ananda Krishna 31:21
For me? So, Shikhil and I were in Paris at that time. We’d gotten some funding from the French government.

Arpita Kapoor 31:31
Oh, nice. I didn’t know.

Ananda Krishna 31:32
They had the equity-free investment.

Arpita Kapoor 31:34
Grants are great.

Ananda Krishna 31:36
And the only condition was, you have to work out of Paris for one year and build your company.

Arpita Kapoor 31:42
Okay.

Ananda Krishna 31:42
So, we were just out of college.

Arpita Kapoor 31:45
You were like, fine, why not? The values of 20.

Ananda Krishna 31:46
The criteria doesn’t feel that bad.
So, we went. We were building over there. But anyway, so a couple of months into it, we got a call from someone we know in the government in India and they were organizing a grand challenge and there was a conference like GCCS 2017, I think. So we got invited to participate in that hackathon or something. So again, their only condition was you have to come to India tomorrow.

So we had nothing better to do. We packed bags, we came here and fully jet-lagged and we won the competition. And after that, we realized that the winners of the award were, the award was to be presented by the Prime Minister of the country, Modiji.

Arpita Kapoor 32:40
Amazing, Modiji gave you an award.

Ananda Krishna 32:41
So Modiji gave us an award and we had no clue about it, like just like half an hour or like one hour before it, we got to know who was presenting and we got, we won the award and like everything was good. Like my dad, everybody was happy, my dad broadcasted it, till date his whatsapp DP is that photo.

Arpita Kapoor 33:03
There’s so much love for parents, right?

Ananda Krishna 33:05
And the crazy part is, I didn’t tell my parents about the award at that time. And I actually didn’t tell them that I was in India, I was meeting them after like 7-8 months. So I wanted to surprise them and anyway, so we got covered in ETV, I think at that time and Rajya Sabha TV and like a lot of media outlets at that time.

And so many relatives and friends of my parents saw that and called him and told him. And I think that was the moment when dad was finally happy that, okay, he can do something And that has helped in like so many ways, like he bought a house because of that, like as a bachelor looking for houses in Bangalore, like it was impossible and my landlord saw, like he reviewed LinkedIn and all and he did a background verification, he found this your story article and he explicitly told me the only reason I’m trusting a bachelor with it is bachelor with my house is because you met Modiji.

Arpita Kapoor 34:12
Amazing, amazing, amazing. I think, no, I think parents, the point you made is this is amazing that parents are sometimes they also in their society don’t know what is a startup. So they don’t have clarity on what they should tell the other people on what’s their daughter doing or what’s their son doing, but if there’s something in the media, which they can share as a proof of concept, it just helps them.

I think more I realized that it just helps them, it’s more for them than us. I mean, you may feel that, you know, you would, we know so many lists, 40 under 40, this and that. But I think for the family who has been with supporting you and waiting for you to make it big, as they say it, it is, it helps a lot and they will share with everyone and they will be very, very happy.

Ananda Krishna 34:54
Exactly. Switching gears a little bit. So what is one thing you realized about yourself after becoming a founder?

Arpita Kapoor 35:05
I think, so I’ve been like this topper always, you’re in a village, you’re in the town school and you’re topping and then, you know, I went to Delhi, I got into DPS.

Ananda Krishna 35:19
Which one?

Arpita Kapoor 35:20
DPS Vasanth Kunj.

Ananda Krishna 35:20
I was in DPS RK Puram.

Arpita Kapoor 35:21
Oh, that I didn’t know, see we are dips, dipsides or whatever they call it, no, RK Puram is the, yeah, it’s like the next, the best. And then we are sort of the next best, but, but yeah, and, and, you know, in DPS also I was, I had too much, I would say pressure of…

Ananda Krishna 35:41
You joined in 11th or?

Arpita Kapoor 35:43
11th, 11th and 12th.

Ananda Krishna 35:44
Then toh topper kid?

Arpita Kapoor 35:45
Yes. There also I was the topper. Okay.

Ananda Krishna 35:48
You were a topper earlier also no, that’s why..

Arpita Kapoor 35:49
Yes. That’s why I got into VK and then there also I had a lot of pressure, because in village a lot of people told my parents, you know, you’re sending her to Delhi, Delhi is, you know, not very, and, you know, why are you sending her and, and somehow my parents were like, she’ll go wherever she wants to go and I went and, and, and then obviously the entire DPS journey and, and, and so, so always it was like, oh topper doing well 9.63, but when I started, I realized ki yaar, woh toh zone hi nahi hai idhar, like it’s so many variables, like when you have to clear an exam, it is you and the exam paper.

It’s, it’s binary, two variables, your hard work, the paper that comes. But I think the biggest thing that I changed about myself is no longer needing to talk, because I realized and discovered it through the first journey ki itni hai variables, not in my hands. I mean, whoever is telling you that the success of the company they are running is entirely in their hands is, is, is not being honest.

I think it’s timing, market, so many things that I think one thing that changed me as a founder is realizing that there is nothing to be topping. There’s nowhere you can be best. It’s just a moving variable with so many.

Ananda Krishna 37:05
Has that applied to your personal life as well?

Arpita Kapoor 37:07
Oh yeah, it has changed me so much. In personal life, personal life maybe I don’t try to top anymore, because I’m like, too many variables, like, just, just leave it, leave it that, and don’t try to be that girl. But that, that, that’s one thing that definitely changed about me.

The second would be, obviously, I, I, I’m a very, very open, like if I meet someone, I’ll know, know their life story in 10 minutes. People just tell me everything. It’s a skill set, as people say, but, but I think being a founder, I realized that you can’t be too close to people around you, especially people who are working with you and building the company and you can’t just be an open book.

So now I say slightly open book. So, so, so I think that also has, has changed definitely where I, I, people may still think that they know a lot about me and, and I know a lot about them. But I think it’s definitely gotten to 50% of where it was in a very, very intentional manner.

Ananda Krishna 38:10
I think it can’t be zero.

Arpita Kapoor 38:11
It can’t be zero, but I think it is drastically reduced, especially with people we continuously work with, because I, I’ve just learned the hard way that there has to be some, some level of, people can’t just tell their entire life story to me as the founder. Doesn’t work.

Ananda Krishna 38:30
It makes sense. No points for guessing. But yeah, that’s, yeah, that’s something which I see evolving in myself, that creating that separation and, and, and just because the separation is created doesn’t mean that, you know, like work will suffer.

It doesn’t have to.

Arpita Kapoor 38:49
Nothing suffers. Everything thrives. This is how I feel like if you have two parts to life, it thrives better.

Both the parts thrive better. And it’s, as I said, it’s, it’s, it’s a, I won’t say lie, but it’s like this narrative that has been told to the world and I do.

Ananda Krishna 39:05
It’s self-inflicted.

Arpita Kapoor 39:06
It’s either self-inflicted. In my view, I would say I was a 20 something person who watched videos of other people and realized that there’s only one way to build a company and it is to give up everything else. But I realized that that’s definitely not the way.

And as you’re saying nothing else, nothing, it doesn’t suffer. Like a person who’s happier in life is happier at work and is happier building the company and, and is more, you know, fulfilled. And I think that, that is something, it may be a 20 something thing.

Ananda Krishna 39:33
I don’t know, like, like I have this advice thing, you know, like I’ve felt that…

Arpita Kapoor 39:38
Hasn’t worked much for you.

Ananda Krishna 39:39
Hasn’t always worked. Like everyone’s journey is different. Everyone’s struggle.

What might work for me might not work for you. So like initially, you know, we were always seeking for different perspective, but I think it’s shaped me personally as well, like in personal life as well. The realization that I’ll do what I think is right at this point, because I understand the problem very deeply, probably others might not.

So I’ll do that. And I won’t question that or beyond the level, like retrospective and all is fine. But I won’t blame myself beyond the level on that decision.

Arpita Kapoor 40:15
And so I don’t like retrospective a lot. I don’t know why, but I’m like, I mean, I go back to what my dad tells me. But I know that in the formal world of things, people have a lot of this looking back, let’s look back.

But I don’t know, I’m not a fan of it.

Ananda Krishna 40:34
Yeah. I mean, incidents like these, like, at least helped me reflect a lot on, you know, like just back to reality kind of thing that is like snapping back to reality that, you know, there’s this whole personal angle.

Arpita Kapoor 40:47
The world out there without the startup.

Ananda Krishna 40:49
Like, it’s not like, like at work, like I can, you know, like, take a decision and, you know, say that this is how it should be done. And people will take you very seriously.

Arpita Kapoor 40:59
Mostly they will take you seriously and abide by it.

Ananda Krishna 41:01
And then over time, like, at least I got accustomed to that. And then I realized that I’m doing it in my personal life. And that’s not okay. Like, so that…

Arpita Kapoor 41:12
The instinct to take control, streamline things.

Ananda Krishna 41:15
Streamline things. Like, yeah, it can be sorted.

Arpita Kapoor 41:19
But do you think you have gotten like, I feel for myself that I’ve gotten this sort of quasi addicted to the thrill. There’s this thing, the thing that, you know, there’s a lot of lows, a lot of lows, then there’s a high. And that high can be anything, like from an outside world, people would think the high is when you win an award or the high is when the company does well.

But actually, for me, the highs are very, very nominal things, like just sitting through a release at 1, 2 in the night. When I started again, I think the most important thing that I cherished about the first journey was the first two years. Like how close the team was and how much we were like sitting till one, two in the night for releases.

And with Mysa now, given that we are first 20 months of our journey, we get that same thrill again. And I think if people ask me, why do you do it? I was like, for that.

For that one night where you are a 20 people team and less than 20 people and you’re like building something, releasing, breaking is so fun.

Ananda Krishna 42:15
Yeah. And that’s what everyone learns as well. You know, like that is something which drives us as well.

You know, like those Friday releases, when you know that things can break but you are willing to release it.

Arpita Kapoor 42:24
People think wealth drives you. No, man, that day, that night, that release night drives you. And it’s so sad that when you grow, you can’t get ever.

I mean, people try, founders try. They tell me they get that back by doing like small projects in a large company. But I don’t think you can ever get it back.

It’s sort of quasi, as I say, quasi-addictive, like that thing when you’re a 20 people team. We always joke that as soon as another floor comes, it will become a company.

Ananda Krishna 42:52
Yeah, I get what you’re saying. Like we’re in that space.

Arpita Kapoor 42:55
How many people in Astra now?

Ananda Krishna 42:58
How many people?

Arpita Kapoor 42:59
Yeah, like what’s the team size?

Ananda Krishna 43:00
Somewhere between 70 to 90.

Arpita Kapoor 43:02
Oh my God, so you’re already at that range where there could be floors if you want.

Ananda Krishna 43:05
Yeah, I mean, we’re fully remote.

Arpita Kapoor 43:07
Oh, that’s great.

Ananda Krishna 43:08
But I do feel it sometimes, that thrill is missing when you’re not shipping code or when you’re not reason for the outage. Do you also feel that a lot of our identities as founders since we started up pretty early is tied to the company? Like, what’s your journey been with that?

Arpita Kapoor 43:28
Absolutely. And I don’t even know how I’m going. I’m sort of fixing it a bit the second time around.

But I think there are times when your email ID is… You forget maintaining a personal email ID because you think the mechmocha.com is going to be forever. And once you join Flipkart, you’re like, that email ID is not going to be forever.

So I’ve had a very, very hard time processing what you say, letting go of Mech Mocha. I think it was so much in my identity. And I would enter every room and introduce myself as a founder of Mech Mocha.

And now it’s founder of Mysa. And sometimes the both start with M. And sometimes I will say Mech Mocha even today.

And it’s almost surreal how much it becomes. Like when I looked at people in Flipkart, they will have like a Flipkart identity. And people are working.

And then they will have this thing, life outside work. And they will do mentorship and they will do things. And that’s not just about what their work is.

But I feel like startup really takes everything out. And a startup or a company, I think it’s very overlapping even today. And one of the things that I’m doing very, very actively is to keep certain personal space, I think, through the journey of Mech Mocha.

Because it had so much highs and lows. And we went through a pivot. We went through layoffs.

We went through raising $10 million and eventually burning it through the journey. I somehow learned that there is this inherent relationship that you have of people you bring and hire. And as a 20-something, you start thinking, oh, they are your friends.

And you are having so much fun in this party, that party. But it’s very hard to say that even they are humans. They go through their life.

And company goes through its own life. And you go through your own life. And in all those multiple lives that are happening, everybody is not in their best all the time.

And what I felt is that being too close is something that I felt just not got taken well. For example, in my sign… And my team keeps asking me, Arpita, what’s your Instagram?

And somehow, this time, my Instagram is private. And I don’t want anybody in my Instagram that is around my work or company life. And that’s maybe ritualistic to protect myself.

Same as throwing parties. Like the Mech Mocha me would throw a lot of house parties. But I think the Mysa me would not do that.

Ananda Krishna 46:02
Why do you think so?

Arpita Kapoor 46:04
I feel like once you cross that… Once you start thinking that this team is going to… Everybody is going to be forever.

But nothing is originally and organically forever. And that inherent thing where as a founder, you prioritize company. You prioritize it over family at times, for God’s sake.

I mean, I’ve gone to my sister’s wedding for less than 3 days. She still tells like in her bouquet of things that… And I remember when I was in…

When we were post-startup, we were at Flipkart for some time. And then when I was starting Mysa, she sat with me and she’s like, see, this is all happening all over again. And I’m telling you, all this is going to repeat.

And she had this list of things that are going to repeat. And quite so much. And she’s been very supportive all through.

But if you see, it does repeat. She’s like, you will miss this. You will not come here.

You will not show up. And your new thing will become more important than everybody else in life. And I kept telling her, no, no, no.

This time I’m very experienced. And I’m second time. It’s not going to repeat.

But to the dot, it is repeating. I put conscious effort every day that I don’t miss a wedding. I don’t miss somebody’s baby is born and I don’t show up.

But it is like a little conscious effort on calendar. That every weekend we need to do something. We need to meet people.

But otherwise, it takes over your life. What has been for you?

Ananda Krishna 47:32
I think I’m in that journey right now.

Arpita Kapoor 47:35
Yeah, you’re building a new family.

Ananda Krishna 47:37
Yeah, exactly. And figuring out personal life, work, and all that intersection. And it’s not been easy.

I was usually the one skipping a lot of events. Even in college, we were always at it. Building, shipping, iterating, all that.

That we didn’t go out as much on batch parties or weekends or things like that. And we missed out a lot on that. Even weddings, I’ve missed out on so many.

But I think after I met Shefali and all that, that balance is coming. I didn’t expect it. I thought she can try.

Arpita Kapoor 48:20
Just call my sister and she’s gonna pay.

Ananda Krishna 48:22
She can try. But deep down, I know like, we will see and that she’ll finally come to terms. But I’m glad that didn’t happen.

And I was able to change. So we came at a middle ground. I met her halfway.

I am at weddings and I don’t miss important events. But if something comes up, I have my laptop with me. So Shefali has a gallery full of me.

At weddings, with my laptop out. So I think that middle ground, I’ve figured out.

Arpita Kapoor 48:53
I think family also adjusts. Family also starts adjusting. And they also amend the rules, right? Like laptop, she will bring only.

There’s no point. But okay, as long as she’s there with the laptop. But have you seen…

I at least feel that you may be physically present, but you’re not there. Because if something, especially if something’s going off in the company, which happens all the time. Do you think you were present in places, but you weren’t?

Ananda Krishna 49:19
For sure. Like I think all of us have been there. I would be lying if it happens even now.

But I think the frequency of that is reduced. Like I try to be more present. And even when something happens, like I think about it for a few seconds.

Is it that important that I have to leave everything and do it? I mean, if the answer is yes, of course, I’ll do it. And everyone’s supporting enough for that.

But I’ve tried to, you know, like, not get carried away. Because as a founder, like, you know, like everything’s important. It means, it’s a two second job, I’ll do it.

So that balance was something which I’ve found. I’m still guilty of prioritizing.

Arpita Kapoor 49:59
No, no, of course. I think it goes without saying. And I also feel that it was very celebrated.

Like at least in while my first journey, it was very celebrated to like forget life, forget people, forget the world and build your company. I think this time around, I feel like I would not want to forget as a 30 year old. I definitely know people are very important.

And relationships are very important through anything that you’re doing. But naturally it becomes so that it was very celebrated. I remember that it was celebrated.

I remember being at events where people were like, don’t go home for 12 months. And that’s how a startup is built. But now I sort of don’t agree.

I feel like startup is a marathon of another order, especially if you’re building for decades, which most people end up doing. It’s something that you don’t want to. And I’ve sat with so many founders, just like we are that, you know, they’ll say that, oh, my daughter was born and I miss this.

And my, you know, I miss that. I miss that. There’s a list of miss, right?

And sometimes you feel like, was it worth missing at that point? And some moments don’t just come back.

Ananda Krishna 51:07
What I realized is I used to take a lot of these things, which were happening at work personally. And it impacted me so much, like mentally, you know, like that it was important for me to, you know, not get affected by either. And this reminds me of this poem called If by Rudyard Kipling.

Arpita Kapoor 51:28
Oh yeah, I know the poem really well.

Ananda Krishna 51:30
So my dad, he used to have this printout on his office desk for the longest time. And once they were changing offices, he gave it to me. I mean, for the longest time, I didn’t understand what it was.

Arpita Kapoor 51:42
Only when you went through the shit.

Ananda Krishna 51:44
Yeah, but when I was a little older, I read it again. And every time I read it, it gives a different perspective. And I mean, if I mean, I think you have it.

Like it resonates so much. Like in the morning also, I was just like, it just came to mind. So I was going through it. That balance, which the poem talks about, right? That is something which I have tried in my personal life.

Arpita Kapoor 52:11
All the balance is not happening, is what I feel. But yeah, we can all try. And I think one thing that I always feel is, you know, people need to humanize founders.

I keep telling my team. Can you please humanize us? Like we can make mistakes.

We can be in a bad mood. We can have the wrong day for the wrong time. But the fact that there’s just too much pressure.

And during my journey in Mech Mocha, we’ve had sort of the toughest times, right? We had to do layoffs to cost correct in our journey. And I remember that during that time, the only people I could call was everybody, every founder I knew.

And people who even today in Mysa, I have taken money from angels because they are the one I am calling. You have to pick up my call, whatever happens. And there are times they would pick up and I would be like, I just don’t want to go to office.

And you know, I don’t want to face people. They’re going to ask me questions and they’re going to ask me. You know, sometimes I don’t have the answer.

It’s like you cannot be absolutely 100% picture perfect every single day when there is so much chaos around building a company. And people just don’t, I don’t know what you feel, but I feel like people just don’t humanize. They feel like founders are tagged, they better be always like right strategy, right communication, absolutely perfect hours, which is not really the case, right?

Because life goes on on the other side as well, you know.

Ananda Krishna 53:39
Yeah. I mean, by the time things get escalated to us, like people have already exhausted all options. It’s already a difficult decision.

Arpita Kapoor 53:49
You don’t know the right answer. You need to act like you know one.

Ananda Krishna 53:52
Yeah.
Have you figured it out? What’s the secret sauce for that?

Arpita Kapoor 53:59
I think less. I mean, it may sound like therapy, but basically, I always think protecting some amount of personal space that, you know, people can’t get in. I think that’s the only way you can be wrong also at times and you can own it.

And there has to be some people who tell you, this is not going well and we need to fix it. But self sort of victimization, it is my mistake. Half the time, journeys of startup are so random, there’s no logic. Like people go back and they tither, this happened and especially in podcast, they’ll be like, okay, this is how it was designed to be.

And then I met this person and I found this customer, but usually it is so caretaken. It’s so very random. That’s why I always say, what do solo founders do?

And I meet them and I ask them, what do you do? Like, I have absolutely no idea, because at least with your co-founders, you can be a hundred percent honest about shit, man.

Ananda Krishna 54:56
And no judgement.

Arpita Kapoor 54:57
I have no idea. This is like, what’s happening. So, otherwise this layer of perfection, you know, sometimes we have been in events where I would go with the other founders and go on the side and be like, we’re tired of pitching, man. Can there be a founder event where pitching is not required and nobody needs to say how well they are doing?

And can they just say how caught up they are with things and how shit’s breaking? But very, very few safe spaces like that for founders today. Even today, like 10 years, it’s just not there.

Ananda Krishna 55:36
Like, I think, I mean, I feel the exact same. And I also thought about why it’s like that. And what I felt is like, as founders, we’re always in the limelight, you know, like people judge us, every move is evaluated, like every Slack message, everyone interprets a different way.

Like, I mean, of course, if you can’t keep thinking about what everyone’s thinking. But sometimes you’re yourself over time.

Arpita Kapoor 56:00
That brings me to the point that you’re human. You will think about what others are thinking. You can’t be like, God, oh my God, I don’t care what people are thinking.

But when you step into office, your mood defines the mood of the floor. It’s always like that. So, sometimes you’re like, to bring everybody up, you need to be cheered up.

But then to cheer you up, that’s why I say, okay, well, there has to be a co-founder who’s at least cheering you up. But otherwise you’re like, I’ve had conversations where founders would tell me that they would cry in the car and then they will come up in all the tough times. And it was a boy and I was like, you also cry?

And he’s like, yeah, of course, I also cry. And then, you know, and then for me, you were asking me, right? I love crying.

Like, I would just cry my heart out and then I’ll feel better. And then I will sort of show up again, texting few people has helped me. But some of those people are very, very important.

Ananda Krishna 56:51
I mean, to treasure those people. Like, I mean, for me as well, like it’s that childhood friends circle.

Arpita Kapoor 56:57
They don’t even have an idea what’s going on. They’ll be like, ‘Bro you are a stud. It is nothing Arpita. It is all going great. Because they will only be supportive and they’ll be like, you’re killing it. It’s gonna get happen. Don’t get stressed.

Ananda Krishna 57:09
I can bet till now, a lot of them, they just know I’m in security. But what in security, they have no clue. They don’t care about anything.

Arpita Kapoor 57:20
Is it SAS? Is it service?

Ananda Krishna 57:21
They don’t even know what SAS is. Forget that. And I feel people like them, like have always made sure that they’ve kept me grounded and they explicitly say it as well.

I remember this time, like some Diwali time. And that was the first time we got featured in Times of India or something, you know, like first article in newspaper, like very proud moment. And before that, the family was like, MBA karlo, master’s karlo, job karlo.

Arpita Kapoor 57:46
You are a Telugu boy, right? Happens to Mohit all the time. Sometimes people are like, next tum kya kar rahe hain?

He’s like, main yahi kar raha hoon. This is what I’m doing. So I can understand.

Ananda Krishna 57:56
And the friends, like I was so happy, you know, like Facebook was in and posted, you know, like got featured here. And that whole evening, like Diwali day, no one mentioned it also. Everyone had seen it.

They’re like, no, it doesn’t matter where you get published or what success you get. You’re the same socially awkward kids we’ve grown up with. And that’s been that.

So even now, like, you know, like when something’s not right, like I just pick up the phone and talk to them. They may or may not understand what I’m going through, but just getting a different perspective and someone to be on the other side and tell it’s okay. Or, you know, just being a sounding board.

Arpita Kapoor 58:36
So my sisters obviously have been working in large companies. So there were times they will, like during Mech Mukha, they’ll give me advice which suits large companies. So like do this, do this, call this meeting and then do this and tell everybody this, that, you know, your appraisal is not going to happen.

They’ll tell me this grand plans and I’m like, didi aise nahi ho raha hai. And then when we were part of Flipkart, I saw obviously a grand corporate running at that grand scale. And sometimes I was like, oh, this is what they were saying and it is working here.

And so you’re right. They would give advice out of what they think is right. And sometimes it’s just outsider perspective coming in and you just take some little bit out of it and you apply it.

But I have definitely, one of the tricks that has worked for me is to have a very, very strong circle outside of the company I’m building. Because in Mech Mocha, it was overlapping. And because of maybe, I actually go back and think because it was in our 20s.

Ananda Krishna 59:32
And I’m guessing everyone else was also in a similar age group.

Arpita Kapoor 59:35
Yes, because everybody’s in their 20s and you started with a college senior of yours. And so life revolved around exactly those people. I think this time around, we’ve realized that life has to have more people.

And one thing that I and Mohit always joke is that we never had work friends. You thought that everybody was a work friend, but technically they were not. And when we meet people who have had careers, as they say, so they will go from this company to that company to that company.

And in one company, they will have someone who plays piano and somebody who does this. And they have this circle, like this person I knew in Amex.

Ananda Krishna 1:00:13
That’s missing for us.

Arpita Kapoor 1:00:14
It’s just totally missing. Where is your work friends? Where are they?

Can you find them? No, because the people you bring as a team are always a team. And a company is always going to precede importance.

How much ever loving, warm person you are. And so having friends outside is what I recommend everyone when I say, because I’ve learned it very, very hard. Having a very close circle that is your own, which is either your college friends or it is your neighbors or it is your family or it is new friends you make in life in 30s, which is damn hard.

You’re always anyway busy. Nobody has time for you. And they are all also busy.

Like people in mid 30s have kids and aging parents and everyone’s always busy. So not having that circle has always been a problem of starting in 20s.

Ananda Krishna 1:01:02
But I’ve been asked so many times, if you were to do it all over again, would you do it the same way? And I don’t have a rational answer to this, but yes, I would do it all over again. Like, I mean, now I have that maturity of to accept it.

And, you know, like there is balance and all that. But deep down, I feel like if you need to put in that time. 20s is great.

There is a lot of time.

Arpita Kapoor 1:01:28
I mean, college was lowest responsibilities, highest amount of time.

Ananda Krishna 1:01:33
I’m glad we didn’t get into like some fancy colleges, you know, where it was super important. Like I could, we could keep up with work and this and it gave us time to figure it out. Like we needed that time, especially to do it. So I would, yes, I would again do it all over again. Of course, there are so many things which..

Arpita Kapoor 1:01:53
You do differently, but like when I was starting Mysa, there was obviously you could have done anything instead of starting a company. Like, you know, people used to tell me to stay in Flipkart, that itself is a great career. And I think there’s this itch.

I always say there’s this itch, and you know, when you’re in 20s, you think you’ll definitely like make it in life by the time you’re 30s. And somehow I have this itch that I have yet not made it in life. And I don’t know why I mean, it could be the topper girl talking, but rest assured, I feel like there’s a lot to do.

And somehow I have this thing about like, having something to own. And people tell me this work life is that somehow I’ve gathered enough wisdom in life to say that, you know, this is just like, it is important like the thing of okay, who I am and who I would be, you know, what is my contribution to the net net contribution to the world, I think it’s, it has become over time very, very important and, and, and that’s one thing that keeps you going irrespective of everything else, like all the all the people you don’t meet all the all the moments you let go, but I realized you can draw out like a methodical person, we all are, we can draw those charts as well that it’s possible to balance it out.

Ananda Krishna 1:03:22
And then how did your family react when you told them that you’re not taking a college placement, but you want to start up?

Arpita Kapoor 1:03:28
For me, it is as simple as they I mean, they everybody in family calls me Arpi, which is short of Arpita and they know that she will do what she wants to do. So they anyway don’t intervene as much but my dad because he’s so entrepreneurial in everything. Like for me, it was not at all convincing and all he was like, she wants to do this, so she will do it. They were very, very supportive.

They knew that a new business is very demanding. So they kept telling that that, you know, are you sure it is very demanding financially this all your friends will go to Microsoft, you know, you will have whatever for me, it was very, very straightforward. And even the second time, obviously, they were like, you know, are you sure?

And more so than parents because parents again self-assume that I will do whatever I like, but my sisters were like more, what you say prescriptive, like, are you sure? You know, again, all of that, which they’re absolutely right, because second time doesn’t mean it’s easier. Like, somebody pinged me recently.

And then on chat, they asked me a second time easier. I said no, is like, is it better? I said no.

They asked me some so many, you are just Yeah, I feel like execution. That is one thing that you are very clear. But what market you are in, what are you building?

What is the timing of it? What is the reception product? Now nothing is in your control.

I think one thing that is in your control becomes more in your control than first time is execution because you are like, this we will figure out somehow, but the rest of the variables are very, very random. And I told that the second time, there’s the only difference is that it’s just that from an execution point of view, you have clarity, people, you don’t do hiring, don’t like die when you get a hiring mistake, you know, it’s part of life that you make a hiring mistake, you can fix it. But otherwise, it’s all the same thing.

Ananda Krishna 1:05:20
Yeah. Do you think that if you had gotten experience, like everyone said, that when you’ve worked a few years and then started up, things would have been different.

Arpita Kapoor 1:05:30
So I think the time I spent at Flipkart, however, it was not feeling like, oh, this is what I want to do the rest of my life. There was a lot of exposure that I don’t think would have happened otherwise, because the size, the sheer size of Flipkart or where thousands of people org, how I’m talking about the tech and the product orgs, right? How do you prioritize a roadmap for a year among these many people, like you would never know if you have not seen it.

So so I think that piece, which is some things are just so straightforward, like, for example, in Mech Mocha, how do you set appraisals? How do you set titles? We would innovate for no reason.

After Flipkart, we were like, why do we need to innovate? It is standard. When you’re interviewing someone, they want to be SD1.

Everyone wants them to be SD1. Why are you innovating, calling them product engineers? Who is telling you to?

So we innovated on things that didn’t need innovation. So some things, time at Flipkart has trained us on some things that are very, very interesting ways in which we are running Mysa, because those standards are very clear, like in 20s, you didn’t know the standard. So you end up innovating everywhere, which is really not required.

That is one thing that if I look back, maybe a couple of years of some company would have, especially the company has to be of a standard like Flipkart, where every process is extremely well thought of and, and like properly arranged and for you to be looking at. But that one thing, I think helps in Mysa. But otherwise, like, I think not knowing was great.

Ananda Krishna 1:07:07
I swear.

Arpita Kapoor 1:07:08
Not knowing too many things and just, just jumping out there was, was.

Ananda Krishna 1:07:13
So I think we’ve been talking for hours now.

Arpita Kapoor 1:07:15
Goodness. What’s the time?

Ananda Krishna 1:07:13
It’s 5.20 now and now I think you also become a senior podcaster.

Arpita Kapoor 1:07:21
Yeah. I hope this makes me one. No, but basically it’s been very, very fun.

We do this a lot on offline and in video calls and doing it live with a bit of lights.

Ananda Krishna 1:07:36
And a camera.

Arpita Kapoor 1:07:37
I don’t know. I forgot the camera as per the other senior podcasters’ recommendation. But it was fun. We should do this more.

Ananda Krishna 1:07:46
Thank you so much, Arpita.

Arpita Kapoor 1:07:48
Yes. Thanks, Ananda.